Scarborough RT

[Ulf Kutzner]

As I recall, the Scarborough line was intended to be operated by
LRVs originally,

By streetcars, yes. But it was also intended to be what in Europe is
sometimes called a pre-Metro: it would be upgradeable later to a subway
line -- obviously, an extension of the existing subway -- when demand
warranted. This limited where it could be built.

The original TTC staff's (I was one) preference was for an extension of the
subway. NIMBY opposition from Scarborough was so strong--based on noise--that
the second design was light rail with curves and connections that forever
precluded conversion to subway. Definitely not pre-metro. The TTC failed to
offer the obvious solution--noise reduced and buffered subway. They feared this
would set a precedent for the rest of the system--or at least the at-grade
sections. They did cost an all underground subway--obviously too expensive.
Political games then imposed the UTDC ICTS system. Instead of making the most of
this and getting the operating cost and service frequency benefits, the TTC
insisted on expensive redesigns and then staffing and operating the line like a
1930's streetcar. Later several of the "redesigns" had to be fixed. But the
great TTC always knows what is best.

The line has been closed earlier than planned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_3_Scarborough

Regards, ULF

[Félix An]

Post by Ulf Kutzner

As I recall, the Scarborough line was intended to be operated by
LRVs originally,

By streetcars, yes. But it was also intended to be what in Europe is
sometimes called a pre-Metro: it would be upgradeable later to a subway
line -- obviously, an extension of the existing subway -- when demand
warranted. This limited where it could be built.

The original TTC staff's (I was one) preference was for an extension of the
subway. NIMBY opposition from Scarborough was so strong--based on noise--that
the second design was light rail with curves and connections that forever
precluded conversion to subway. Definitely not pre-metro. The TTC failed to
offer the obvious solution--noise reduced and buffered subway. They feared this
would set a precedent for the rest of the system--or at least the at-grade
sections. They did cost an all underground subway--obviously too expensive.
Political games then imposed the UTDC ICTS system. Instead of making the most of
this and getting the operating cost and service frequency benefits, the TTC
insisted on expensive redesigns and then staffing and operating the line like a
1930's streetcar. Later several of the "redesigns" had to be fixed. But the
great TTC always knows what is best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_3_Scarborough
Regards, ULF

I used to ride this line a lot back when I was in Toronto! I missed
riding it to STC during Christmastime.