London's Great Northern Hotel

[e27002 aurora]

So, last weekend was our wedding anniversary. Rather than struggle
back to the South Coast late Saturday night, I booked us a room at the
Great Northern Hotel. For any that might find a rail related hotel
review here goes:
Pros: The restoration job is beautiful. It has been tastefully
accomplished using quality materials. Our room was beautifully
finished with an inlaid carpet, in a wood surround. Our bathroom
floor was tiled. The plumbing in our room was excellent with ample
hot water.

The electrics in our room were especially impressive. There were
plenty of lamps, the main one being on a dimmer. Moreover, there are
more than sufficient 13 amp outlets. We have stayed in hotels were we
needed to move the bed in order for me to plug in my CPAP machine. No
such problem at the Great Northern. Our room had its own thermostat.

The bed was a (UK) King-size (US Queen). But it was very comfortable.

The staff were polite and helpful to a fault. Perhaps most surprising
was the complete absence of noise. We were after all at Kings Cross
Station!

Cons: The complimentary breakfast was close to non-existent. The
Spilt Milk and Plum Restaurant was not available, to hotel guests,
having been booked for a function. So we had to use the pantry
adjacent to our room. There was bread, not even a croissant or bagel.
The selection of fruits was green apples and red apples. There was
one cake.

Expresso and tea were available in abundance, :-)

This may be a good choice for someone visiting London, it could hardly
be more convenient for transportation. And, before the UK language
police start havering and whining misc.transport.urban-transit is an
intrnational group.

[e27002 aurora]

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

Maybe the fault of the plumbers rather than the showers; not all
showers are designed for lower pressures (or sometimes the pipes
feeding them) and the thermostatic and non-return valves now required
possibly make the difference even more critical.

[Martin Edwards]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

Maybe the fault of the plumbers rather than the showers; not all
showers are designed for lower pressures (or sometimes the pipes
feeding them) and the thermostatic and non-return valves now required
possibly make the difference even more critical.

I'm with that: my shower works fine.

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

Yes, there are many hotel showers which don't deliver their hot water at
high pressure, but that doesn't bother me.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

Yes, there are many hotel showers which don't deliver their hot water at
high pressure, but that doesn't bother me.

Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by Roland Perry
there are many hotel showers which don't deliver their hot water at
high pressure, but that doesn't bother me.

Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Hi-pressure showers don't make you any cleaner, they just waste water.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by Roland Perry
there are many hotel showers which don't deliver their hot water at
high pressure, but that doesn't bother me.

Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Hi-pressure showers don't make you any cleaner, they just waste water.

Our opinions differ Roland. I am leaving it at that.

[Recliner]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

Yes, there are many hotel showers which don't deliver their hot water at
high pressure, but that doesn't bother me.

Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Is godliness now a swear word? I'd missed that.

[Sam Wilson]

In article
<1896185442.470242321.413730.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sep
tember.org>,

Post by Recliner

Post by e27002 aurora
Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Is godliness now a swear word? I'd missed that.

Adrian is a Messianic Jew or something close to it. Observant Jews
don't like to use the name of the Deity in either speech or writing.
Leaving out the "o" seems to be sufficient to meet that requirement.

Sam

[Recliner]

Post by Sam Wilson
In article
tember.org>,

Post by Recliner

Post by e27002 aurora
Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Is godliness now a swear word? I'd missed that.

Adrian is a Messianic Jew or something close to it. Observant Jews
don't like to use the name of the Deity in either speech or writing.
Leaving out the "o" seems to be sufficient to meet that requirement.

Yes, I was aware of his unusual religious leanings. But if one is of that
persuasion, surely one should simply avoid using any prohibited words,
rather than using them with a letter omitted (which actually draws
attention to the word he's not supposed to use).

[Sam Wilson]

In article
<820517799.470306207.018945.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>,

Post by Recliner

Post by Sam Wilson
In article
tember.org>,

Post by Recliner

Post by e27002 aurora
Cleanliness is next to G_dliness. I like a real, hi-volume,
hi-pressure, hot water shower. :-)

Is godliness now a swear word? I'd missed that.

Adrian is a Messianic Jew or something close to it. Observant Jews
don't like to use the name of the Deity in either speech or writing.
Leaving out the "o" seems to be sufficient to meet that requirement.

Yes, I was aware of his unusual religious leanings. But if one is of that
persuasion, surely one should simply avoid using any prohibited words,
rather than using them with a letter omitted (which actually draws
attention to the word he's not supposed to use).

You'll have to ask Adrian, but I suspect godliness is a concept he might
very well want to talk about. I'm not sure what other locution he might
use.

Sam

[Guy Gorton]

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

It is attractive until the day the mains water system ceases to flow
into the premises for whatever reason - planned/unplanned.
My late sister-in-law's house was mains-only and it was not a happy
solution - add being coupled to a combi boiler and the water system
was useless.

Guy Gorton

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Guy Gorton

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

It is attractive until the day the mains water system ceases to flow
into the premises for whatever reason - planned/unplanned.
My late sister-in-law's house was mains-only and it was not a happy
solution - add being coupled to a combi boiler and the water system
was useless.

A family member who works in the renewables sector laments the vogue for
combi boilers. A hot water tank provides a useful way of decoupling
supply and demand when energy sources are intermittent.

Sam

[e27002 aurora]

While on the one hand this does benefit from efficiencies of scale (I'm
sure the municipal hot water plant is very good at its job,) I do wonder
about the 'transmission losses' involved. Although in a sense they do
provide a public good, in that I'm told knowing where the pipes run and
where to sleep near them is invaluable for the homeless in winter.

In some schemes of this kind (no idea about this specific case), the heat source for making the water hot is a by-product of some sort of
industrial process that would otherwise use it to make the atmosphere a little warmer or slightly increase the temperature of a local river.

http://www.vitalenergi.co.uk/casestudies/nottingham-city/
You can see some of the pipes at the eastern end of the railway station,
and others were re-routed a little south of the station as part of the
tramway extension works.

IIRC this system utilizes the Great Central tunnels under Nottingham.
Great as the heating system is, I would much rather have the trains,
:-)

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

http://www.vitalenergi.co.uk/casestudies/nottingham-city/
You can see some of the pipes at the eastern end of the railway station,
and others were re-routed a little south of the station as part of the
tramway extension works.

IIRC this system utilizes the Great Central tunnels under Nottingham.
Great as the heating system is, I would much rather have the trains,

That's one of many limbs to the system. The problem with reinstating the
trains is orders of magnitude more complex than moving a few hot water
pipes. Most recently the tram extension, and before that this absurdly
ugly museum in the tunnel mouth:

Loading Image...

And of course the Victoria Centre and housing above, which is probably
one of the recipients of the hot water.

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:30:23 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora

You can see some of the pipes at the eastern end of the railway station,
and others were re-routed a little south of the station as part of the
tramway extension works.

IIRC this system utilizes the Great Central tunnels under Nottingham.
Great as the heating system is, I would much rather have the trains,
:-)

Its a mystery to me why they didn't route a branch of the tram line through it.
They head straight for it then veer off at the last moment. The tunnels northern
portal is at the victoria centre where they could have had a stop and then
headed off up the A60.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by e27002 aurora

You can see some of the pipes at the eastern end of the railway station,
and others were re-routed a little south of the station as part of the
tramway extension works.

IIRC this system utilizes the Great Central tunnels under Nottingham.
Great as the heating system is, I would much rather have the trains,

-)

Its a mystery to me why they didn't route a branch of the tram line through it.
They head straight for it then veer off at the last moment. The tunnels northern
portal is at the victoria centre where they could have had a stop and then
headed off up the A60.

On one hand that route misses out the main square, Nottingham Trent
University etc; on the other hand they'd have ended up with a tramline
bisecting two underground car parks and quite probably a lot of
expensive tunnel repairs to do.

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:21:33 +0000

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by e27002 aurora

You can see some of the pipes at the eastern end of the railway station,
and others were re-routed a little south of the station as part of the
tramway extension works.

IIRC this system utilizes the Great Central tunnels under Nottingham.
Great as the heating system is, I would much rather have the trains,

-)

Its a mystery to me why they didn't route a branch of the tram line through

it.

Post by s***@potato.field
They head straight for it then veer off at the last moment. The tunnels

northern

Post by s***@potato.field
portal is at the victoria centre where they could have had a stop and then
headed off up the A60.

On one hand that route misses out the main square, Nottingham Trent
University etc; on the other hand they'd have ended up with a tramline
bisecting two underground car parks and quite probably a lot of
expensive tunnel repairs to do.

So the tunnels have been compromised? I assumed they were still intact.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field
Its a mystery to me why they didn't route a branch of the tram line through

it.

Post by s***@potato.field
They head straight for it then veer off at the last moment. The tunnels

northern

Post by s***@potato.field
portal is at the victoria centre where they could have had a stop and then
headed off up the A60.

On one hand that route misses out the main square, Nottingham Trent
University etc; on the other hand they'd have ended up with a tramline
bisecting two underground car parks and quite probably a lot of
expensive tunnel repairs to do.

So the tunnels have been compromised? I assumed they were still intact.

Victoria Station was on top of the hill, in a deep cutting with a tunnel
mouth at either end. As far as I know the tunnels in both directions are
intact. The massive shopping centre car park is built from track level
upwards, and the shops themselves are at ground and first flooe level
beneath the flats and the grey-roofed 'shed'. The northern part of the
cutting has a separate car park with an adjacent bus station at ground
level.

Loading Image...

You can see the cutting best between A (the northern portal) and D
(where a fraction of the old grey-brick retaining wall is viable.

The southern portal is at C, and has a small building on the much
smaller cutting.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field
Its a mystery to me why they didn't route a branch of the tram line through

it.

Post by s***@potato.field
They head straight for it then veer off at the last moment. The tunnels

northern

Post by s***@potato.field
portal is at the victoria centre where they could have had a stop and then
headed off up the A60.

On one hand that route misses out the main square, Nottingham Trent
University etc; on the other hand they'd have ended up with a tramline
bisecting two underground car parks and quite probably a lot of
expensive tunnel repairs to do.

So the tunnels have been compromised? I assumed they were still intact.

Victoria Station was on top of the hill, in a deep cutting with a tunnel
mouth at either end. As far as I know the tunnels in both directions are
intact. The massive shopping centre car park is built from track level
upwards, and the shops themselves are at ground and first flooe level
beneath the flats and the grey-roofed 'shed'. The northern part of the
cutting has a separate car park with an adjacent bus station at ground
level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/nottingham-victoria.jpg
You can see the cutting best between A (the northern portal) and D
(where a fraction of the old grey-brick retaining wall is viable.
The southern portal is at C, and has a small building on the much
smaller cutting.

And, right at the center of the view is the only remaining part of
Nottingham Victoria Station, the clock tower.

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by Roland Perry
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/nottingham-victoria.jpg
You can see the cutting best between A (the northern portal) and D
(where a fraction of the old grey-brick retaining wall is viable.
The southern portal is at C, and has a small building on the much
smaller cutting.

And, right at the center of the view is the only remaining part of
Nottingham Victoria Station, the clock tower.

And the station hotel.

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:06:26 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora
And, right at the center of the view is the only remaining part of
Nottingham Victoria Station, the clock tower.

Didn't know that. I always thought it looked inconcruous but never really
considered what it actually was.

--
Spud

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:45:59 +0000

Post by Roland Perry
Victoria Station was on top of the hill, in a deep cutting with a tunnel
mouth at either end. As far as I know the tunnels in both directions are
intact. The massive shopping centre car park is built from track level
upwards, and the shops themselves are at ground and first flooe level
beneath the flats and the grey-roofed 'shed'. The northern part of the
cutting has a separate car park with an adjacent bus station at ground
level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/nottingham-victoria.jpg
You can see the cutting best between A (the northern portal) and D
(where a fraction of the old grey-brick retaining wall is viable.
The southern portal is at C, and has a small building on the much
smaller cutting.

Thats a shame. Those tunnels would have been a useful link whether for tram
or road. Seems a bit idiotic to have destroyed them. Oh well.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry
Victoria Station was on top of the hill, in a deep cutting with a tunnel
mouth at either end. As far as I know the tunnels in both directions are
intact. The massive shopping centre car park is built from track level
upwards, and the shops themselves are at ground and first flooe level
beneath the flats and the grey-roofed 'shed'. The northern part of the
cutting has a separate car park with an adjacent bus station at ground
level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/nottingham-victoria.jpg
You can see the cutting best between A (the northern portal) and D
(where a fraction of the old grey-brick retaining wall is viable.
The southern portal is at C, and has a small building on the much
smaller cutting.

Thats a shame. Those tunnels would have been a useful link whether for tram
or road. Seems a bit idiotic to have destroyed them. Oh well.

Do keep up! The tunnels are still there. It's the cutting which has been
built upon.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by Guy Gorton

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

It is attractive until the day the mains water system ceases to flow
into the premises for whatever reason - planned/unplanned.
My late sister-in-law's house was mains-only and it was not a happy
solution - add being coupled to a combi boiler and the water system
was useless.

A family member who works in the renewables sector laments the vogue for
combi boilers. A hot water tank provides a useful way of decoupling
supply and demand when energy sources are intermittent.

My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

[e27002 aurora]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:27:23 +0000, Neil Williams

Post by e27002 aurora
My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

I have experience with precisely one, and it has been as reliable as
one might expect a system boiler to be.
How many have you experienced, and how old? The technology doesn't
differ that much from a system boiler. It's just that if it fails
there is no hot water backup.

One, well I did say limited, :-). And, its age was, to me unknown.
Before I bought this condo, I rented an apartment here in town for two
years. It had a combi boiler, it heated the water for the radiators
and instantaneously heated the water for the shower and faucets. Twice
during my stay I called out the repairman because the hot water supply
failed.

Moreover, when the pilot light went out, relighting and restarting the
system was an art form, a torturous one.

Added two that, two homes that I have owned, one in the US and one in
the UK had instantaneous water heaters. Both worked well for the
first year. After that, we experienced problems.

A tank with heaters works best. My UK home has a modern tank with two
immersion heaters. My US home has a tank with a gas heater.

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by e27002 aurora
My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

I have experience with precisely one, and it has been as reliable as
one might expect a system boiler to be.
How many have you experienced, and how old? The technology doesn't
differ that much from a system boiler. It's just that if it fails
there is no hot water backup.

One, well I did say limited, :-). And, its age was, to me unknown.
Before I bought this condo, I rented an apartment here in town for two
years. It had a combi boiler, it heated the water for the radiators
and instantaneously heated the water for the shower and faucets. Twice
during my stay I called out the repairman because the hot water supply
failed.

The worst one we had was in a rented house, and the hot water was out of
action for three weeks (in February). British Gas, who had a maintenance
contract, called almost every day, and were simply unable to work out
what to do with it. Eventually they called out someone from the
manufacturer.

For three weeks we had to boil water in pots on the cooker to wash or
have a bath. The managing agents were useless; as far as they were
concerned it was BG's problem.

[James Heaton]

Post by e27002 aurora
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:27:23 +0000, Neil Williams

Post by e27002 aurora
My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

I have experience with precisely one, and it has been as reliable as
one might expect a system boiler to be.
How many have you experienced, and how old? The technology doesn't
differ that much from a system boiler. It's just that if it fails
there is no hot water backup.

One, well I did say limited, :-). And, its age was, to me unknown.
Before I bought this condo, I rented an apartment here in town for two
years. It had a combi boiler, it heated the water for the radiators
and instantaneously heated the water for the shower and faucets. Twice
during my stay I called out the repairman because the hot water supply
failed.
Moreover, when the pilot light went out, relighting and restarting the
system was an art form, a torturous one.
Added two that, two homes that I have owned, one in the US and one in
the UK had instantaneous water heaters. Both worked well for the
first year. After that, we experienced problems.
A tank with heaters works best. My UK home has a modern tank with two
immersion heaters. My US home has a tank with a gas heater.

I didn't know you could get combo with pilot light!

Both ours - even the one fitted approx 1990 long before we bought the house,
were spark.

James

[e27002 aurora]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:03:27 +0000, Neil Williams

Post by e27002 aurora
Moreover, when the pilot light went out, relighting and restarting the
system was an art form, a torturous one.

Quite an old one, then. Modern boilers don't have pilot lights; they
ignite reliably on demand using an electronic ignition.

Post by e27002 aurora
Added two that, two homes that I have owned, one in the US and one in
the UK had instantaneous water heaters. Both worked well for the
first year. After that, we experienced problems.
A tank with heaters works best. My UK home has a modern tank with two
immersion heaters. My US home has a tank with a gas heater.

Electric immersion heaters are an expensive way to operate. Heating
and providing hot water for my small 3 bedroom house using gas is
noticeably cheaper than doing so for my old one bedroom flat (smaller
than the downstairs of my current house) was using electricity.

Understood. Unfortunately this building is all electric. Since it is
four floors high that is probably as it should be.

As an aside, despite being a cabled town, Virgin did not run a cable
to building. It is four years old, so well after the area was cabled.
So, I could not move my cable, and internet access, with me. We do
however have a communal dish on the roof.

I assume you mean an unvented cylinder to provide your US-style high
pressure system? I think if I was going for a tank system from scratch
I would choose one of those.

Yes, it is an unvented cylinder. It is very heavily insulated with
two immersion heaters.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by e27002 aurora
My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

I have experience with precisely one, and it has been as reliable as
one might expect a system boiler to be.
How many have you experienced, and how old? The technology doesn't
differ that much from a system boiler. It's just that if it fails
there is no hot water backup.

I've had a few, and the main problem is they don't deliver hot water
fast enough to fill a bath in a sensible length of time. Let alone
filling up a bath at the same time someone else is having a shower.

Nothing to do with low pressure British plumbing then?

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by e27002 aurora
My limited experience with combi boilers is that they are far from
reliable.

I have experience with precisely one, and it has been as reliable as
one might expect a system boiler to be.
How many have you experienced, and how old? The technology doesn't
differ that much from a system boiler. It's just that if it fails
there is no hot water backup.

I've had a few, and the main problem is they don't deliver hot water
fast enough to fill a bath in a sensible length of time. Let alone
filling up a bath at the same time someone else is having a shower.

Nothing to do with low pressure British plumbing then?

The reverse, actually. Try filling the bath faster and the water goes
lukewarm. It's not a problem getting the water through, it's the
capacity to heat it up "on demand" in the first place.

[e27002 aurora]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:01:46 +0000, Guy Gorton

Post by Guy Gorton

Post by e27002 aurora

There can't be many people who feel inclined to comment on the
excellence or otherwise of a hotel room's plumbing

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down yet
again.

Given how well travelled you are, Roland, one is surprised you have
not noticed the quality of the mains pressure water systems found in
those United States. One of the things that attracted me to my unit
here on the south coast was the absence of the usual low pressure UK
plumbing. My shower here works as well as my shower in Tucson. That
is hardly the norm for the UK.

It is attractive until the day the mains water system ceases to flow
into the premises for whatever reason - planned/unplanned.
My late sister-in-law's house was mains-only and it was not a happy
solution - add being coupled to a combi boiler and the water system
was useless.
Guy Gorton

That would be true Mr. Gorton. It has not happened to me yet. I
have a tank with immersion heaters. But, without mains pressure it
would not function.

[Martin Edwards]

Post by e27002 aurora
So, last weekend was our wedding anniversary. Rather than struggle
back to the South Coast late Saturday night, I booked us a room at the
Great Northern Hotel. For any that might find a rail related hotel
Pros: The restoration job is beautiful. It has been tastefully
accomplished using quality materials. Our room was beautifully
finished with an inlaid carpet, in a wood surround. Our bathroom
floor was tiled. The plumbing in our room was excellent with ample
hot water.
The electrics in our room were especially impressive. There were
plenty of lamps, the main one being on a dimmer. Moreover, there are
more than sufficient 13 amp outlets. We have stayed in hotels were we
needed to move the bed in order for me to plug in my CPAP machine. No
such problem at the Great Northern. Our room had its own thermostat.
The bed was a (UK) King-size (US Queen). But it was very comfortable.
The staff were polite and helpful to a fault. Perhaps most surprising
was the complete absence of noise. We were after all at Kings Cross
Station!
Cons: The complimentary breakfast was close to non-existent. The
Spilt Milk and Plum Restaurant was not available, to hotel guests,
having been booked for a function. So we had to use the pantry
adjacent to our room. There was bread, not even a croissant or bagel.
The selection of fruits was green apples and red apples. There was
one cake.
Expresso and tea were available in abundance, :-)
This may be a good choice for someone visiting London, it could hardly
be more convenient for transportation. And, before the UK language
police start havering and whining misc.transport.urban-transit is an
intrnational group.

Perish the thought.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by e27002 aurora
Expresso and tea were available in abundance

What's "Expresso"?

An Italian fast train...?

Very drole Robert.

[e27002 aurora]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 03:59:55 -0800 (PST), furnessvale

So, <SNIP>

Sorry to nitpick but one of my pet hates is people who begin a sentence (in
speech) with "So".
Is it now entering the written language and has it got any grammatical or
linguistic justification?
Sorry again, I'll go back under my bridge!
George

So, George, you are, like, apologizing for being right? :-)

[e27002 aurora]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 13:55:17 -0800 (PST), Chris Miles-Patrick Date

I've spent 30 minutes in a suite of the GN Hotel during the day and was also surprised at how quiet it was from the elements of the Euston Road outside!
*not as a guest but snooping with a friend, I live 15 mins away from KX on the Tube so staying as a guest at a luxury hotel when my own bed is within quilt distance is a tad illogical!

With the drapes drawn it was hard to believe one was in London.
Although looking out of the pantry window on Sunday morning, the sight
of two heavily armed Bobbies was a reminder.

[e27002 aurora]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:07:41 -0800 (PST)

Do schools teach grammar now ? Even broadcasters seem unfamiliar with it.
=20
e.g. saying "Manchester City suffered a defeat 'to' Liverpool, when they=

=20

mean a deafeat 'by' Liverpool.
=20
Back to the hotel review - well written - but how much does it cost - a=

=20

vital part of any review for those of us with limited resources.

The "rules" of grammar that may or may not be taught in schools are nothing=
more than a fossilised set of arbitrary usages chosen to reflect a combina=
tion of the patterns of speech of a particular subset of speakers of the la=
nguage, combined with wishful thinking about how the language "ought" to be=

That may be so. But the alternative is not teaching grammer at all and ending up
with even more of the kind of retarded patois you find in sink estates where
like every blood is a bro init yeah? Having a common set of rules even if
they're fixed at an arbitrary point in the languages evolution aids mutual
comprehension.

Ebonics, anyone?

Them be bad bro.

[e27002 aurora]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:31:02 +0000, Recliner

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down
yet again.

I stayed in one in Weymouth (the name of which I've forgotten) four
years ago where the hot and cold water stopped. Fortunately the
bath/sink appeared to be on a different supply to the cistern. It was
back after a couple of days.

I stayed in a very smart hotel recently where both the hot and cold
water failed for a while. However, as it was in Livingstone, Zambia, I
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/22684743741/in/album-72157660656194221/
We were warned that though they look cute, they are also very
bad-tempered, and it was inadvisable to get too close if we didn't
want to get kicked. There were also giraffes in the hotel grounds,
though I failed to get a picture of them.

At least Canada geese are laid back. But the self-fertilising of
lawns can be problematic.

In Reno, NV Canada geese are a plague. I did some work for the
state-wide energy company and lived there for five years. The
companies 2HQ head extensive grounds with streams, trees, et al.
During the winter months we played host to large numbers of Canadian
Geese. Walking from the parking lot to the office entailed finding
uncovered pieces of tarmac on which to walk.

[e27002 aurora]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:03:16 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

So, <SNIP>

Sorry to nitpick but one of my pet hates is people who begin a sentence (in
speech) with "So".
Is it now entering the written language and has it got any grammatical or
linguistic justification?
Sorry again, I'll go back under my bridge!

So do you think our mid-Atlantic friend will be upset that all the
responses so far have been criticisms of his spelling and grammar, rather
than praise for his in-depth hotel review?

Adrian did rather ask for it by being pre-emptively rude about language
preferences at the end of his piece :-)
Having said that it was an interesting description. He did make a good
point about having adequate power sockets in usable positions,
especially when it comes to people who need some sort of medical
technology, something the average trip advisor review tends to overlook.

Yes, that was a good point. One thing he didn't mention was whether it has
multi-standard electric sockets, useful for a hotel right next to an
international station. Some modern international hotels have sockets that
will take UK, US and Continental plugs.

IIRC he specifically mentioned 13 amp.

He did, but I wondered if they might have been multi-standard, though I
suppose he might have mentioned that he could plug his US stuff in if they
were.

Would UK building regs allow that?

The GNH has the usual 110v outlet in the bathroom. Other than that
the usual, excellent UK electrical outlets.

These days laptops, etc. are not an issue. Their power units accept a
wide range of voltages.

[e27002 aurora]

Having said that it was an interesting description. He did make a good
point about having adequate power sockets in usable positions,
especially when it comes to people who need some sort of medical
technology, something the average trip advisor review tends to overlook.

Yes, that was a good point. One thing he didn't mention was whether it has
multi-standard electric sockets, useful for a hotel right next to an
international station. Some modern international hotels have sockets that
will take UK, US and Continental plugs.

IIRC he specifically mentioned 13 amp.

He did, but I wondered if they might have been multi-standard, though I
suppose he might have mentioned that he could plug his US stuff in if they
were.

Would UK building regs allow that?

They (multi-standard outlets) are generally described as illegal in
the UK unlike e.g. other single-standard foreign outlets for which
IIRC it is only required that they are wired and constructed to
provide the same degree of safety; ISTR seeing Schuko outlets in use
somewhere in the past where they would have been in plain view of any
H+S inspector.

The large hotel across the road from New Scotland Yard had either US or
European sockets (I forget which) when I stayed there for a conference
about eight years ago.
"All rooms are en-suite and feature a mix of sumptuous fabrics,
LCD TV entertainment systems, MP3 docking stations, wired and
wireless internet, multi-national electrical sockets and White
Company products."

One wonders if this includes flat blade US sockets at the correct
voltage.

IMHO, a US "style" socket, at European voltage is very dangerous and
should never be allowed.

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

The large hotel across the road from New Scotland Yard had either US or
European sockets (I forget which) when I stayed there for a conference
about eight years ago.
"All rooms are en-suite and feature a mix of sumptuous fabrics,
LCD TV entertainment systems, MP3 docking stations, wired and
wireless internet, multi-national electrical sockets and White
Company products."

One wonders if this includes flat blade US sockets at the correct
voltage.
IMHO, a US "style" socket, at European voltage is very dangerous and
should never be allowed.

When I stayed there it must have had at least US sockets, because now
you mention it I recall a transformer box hidden behind the desk.

[e27002 aurora]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:20:36 +0000, Neil Williams

Not a viable solution, the logistics of making such a change would make
it a practical impossibility.

I understand that new builds *are* moving that way. It's conversion of
existing installations that is infeasible.

Now there is an English construct that grinds with me. This British
utilization of "build" as in "the build". What is wrong with "new
construction *is* moving that way"?

One also dislikes "the spend".

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:11:33 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora
On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:20:36 +0000, Neil Williams

Not a viable solution, the logistics of making such a change would make
it a practical impossibility.

I understand that new builds *are* moving that way. It's conversion of
existing installations that is infeasible.

Now there is an English construct that grinds with me. This British
utilization of "build" as in "the build". What is wrong with "new
construction *is* moving that way"?

Whats wrong with "new builds are" other than you don't like it?

--
Spud

[e27002 aurora]

Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:11:33 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora
On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:20:36 +0000, Neil Williams

Not a viable solution, the logistics of making such a change would make
it a practical impossibility.

I understand that new builds *are* moving that way. It's conversion of
existing installations that is infeasible.

Now there is an English construct that grinds with me. This British
utilization of "build" as in "the build". What is wrong with "new
construction *is* moving that way"?

Whats wrong with "new builds are" other than you don't like it?

Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

"New buildings are" would be OK.

[Robin]

Post by e27002 aurora
Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future" :)

[Roland Perry]

Post by Robin

Post by e27002 aurora
Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future" :)

Also commonly used the last 20 years in software engineering to describe
the output from an assembler/compiler/linker.

eg My Android phone is running Build number LMY48T

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:41:39 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Robin

Post by e27002 aurora
Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future" :)

Also commonly used the last 20 years in software engineering to describe
the output from an assembler/compiler/linker.

"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming but I guess that didn't have enough gravitas for some people.
IMO programming is as much art as it is engineering and doesn't really
deserve the engineering moniker, especially given that most of us who work
in programming don't have the professional qualifications or certfications
equivalent to those who do real engineering. And no, Mickeysoft Certfied
Engineer doesn't count.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Robin

Post by e27002 aurora
Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future" :)

Also commonly used the last 20 years in software engineering to describe
the output from an assembler/compiler/linker.

"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming but I guess that didn't have enough gravitas for some people.

Long ago there were "Systems analysts" who drew up the specifications
for what they thought needed doing, and programmers were just the
"brickies" putting it together.

Post by s***@potato.field
IMO programming is as much art as it is engineering and doesn't really
deserve the engineering moniker, especially given that most of us who work
in programming don't have the professional qualifications or certfications
equivalent to those who do real engineering. And no, Mickeysoft Certfied
Engineer doesn't count.

There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:07 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming but I guess that didn't have enough gravitas for some people.

Long ago there were "Systems analysts" who drew up the specifications
for what they thought needed doing, and programmers were just the
"brickies" putting it together.

Usually the specs were pretty high level though. The programmers still had
to fill in between the lines and then figure out how to get the machine to
do it.

Post by Roland Perry
There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

Perhaps it depends on the sphere. I would hope the people writing the software
for fly by wire have a bit more than just on the job training. OTOH I know
someone who worked in heavy machine tool programming - quite dangerous if it
goes wrong - and his only qualification was a standard BSc. The rest was on the
job.

--
Spud

[Basil Jet]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Robin

Post by e27002 aurora
Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future" :)

Also commonly used the last 20 years in software engineering to describe
the output from an assembler/compiler/linker.

"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming but I guess that didn't have enough gravitas for some people.

Long ago there were "Systems analysts" who drew up the specifications
for what they thought needed doing, and programmers were just the
"brickies" putting it together.

Post by s***@potato.field
IMO programming is as much art as it is engineering and doesn't really
deserve the engineering moniker, especially given that most of us who work
in programming don't have the professional qualifications or
certfications
equivalent to those who do real engineering. And no, Mickeysoft Certfied
Engineer doesn't count.

There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

Metal, of course, being a baffling jargon term for silicon.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Roland Perry
There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

Metal, of course, being a baffling jargon term for silicon.

It's far broader than that. For example if you are writing the software
to operate the hammers in a lineprinter you are literally bashing the
metal (rather than throwing a stream of ASCII at a port number for
someone else's software to turn into marks on the paper).

[The Real Doctor]

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

Ian

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:29:09 +0000

Post by The Real Doctor

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by The Real Doctor

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

Post by s***@potato.field
Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 10:48:21 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by The Real Doctor

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.

Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?

Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by The Real Doctor
Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Someone with greater skills than the average surgeon.

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.

Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?
Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

QED.

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:57:50 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by The Real Doctor
Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Someone with greater skills than the average surgeon.

I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things you
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?
Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

QED.

Really? You think because you do a management non job at that vacuous campaign
lobby group its up the ladder from what you did at Amstrad? I'll tell you
something pal, it won't be your current role you'll be remembered for.

Amusing website though your employer has. More buzzwords than a BBC strategy
white paper.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by The Real Doctor
Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Someone with greater skills than the average surgeon.

I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things you
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Why do you think I don't know anything about medical research?

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?
Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

QED.

Really? You think because you do a management non job at that vacuous campaign
lobby group its up the ladder from what you did at Amstrad?

My ambition is to help at least as many people who are suffering from
cyber-abuse and unauthorised snooping, as those millions who were helped
by being able to buy an affordable Amstrad PCW (etc) to write that novel
or automate their business. Without my input it would have been like a
TRS80 clone running Wordstar, and crashed and burned.

Post by s***@potato.field
I'll tell you
something pal, it won't be your current role you'll be remembered for.

I'm content to be remembered for what I did in the past. Things in the
future will be a bonus.

Post by s***@potato.field
Amusing website though your employer has. More buzzwords than a BBC strategy
white paper.

Employer? If it's where I think you mean, I'm the director and main
shareholder too.

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:31:38 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things you
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Why do you think I don't know anything about medical research?

So you're medically trained then or know people who are? And if you're going
to ask me the same question the answer is no and yes.

Post by Roland Perry
My ambition is to help at least as many people who are suffering from
cyber-abuse and unauthorised snooping, as those millions who were helped

Easy - tell them to get off twitter & facebook and don't use Windows. Job done.

Post by Roland Perry
by being able to buy an affordable Amstrad PCW (etc) to write that novel
or automate their business. Without my input it would have been like a
TRS80 clone running Wordstar, and crashed and burned.

No doubt.

Post by Roland Perry
I'm content to be remembered for what I did in the past. Things in the
future will be a bonus.

Will be a bloody miracle.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
Amusing website though your employer has. More buzzwords than a BBC strategy
white paper.

Employer? If it's where I think you mean, I'm the director and main
shareholder too.

You're actually admitting to being responsible for all that waffle and guff?
Oh dear.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things you
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Why do you think I don't know anything about medical research?

So you're medically trained then or know people who are?

Loads of the latter, but if that's the same for you why the current
myopia?

Post by s***@potato.field
And if you're going
to ask me the same question the answer is no and yes.

Post by Roland Perry
My ambition is to help at least as many people who are suffering from
cyber-abuse and unauthorised snooping, as those millions who were helped

Easy - tell them to get off twitter & facebook and don't use Windows. Job done.

And for you, get off the Overground. Job done.

[s***@potato.field]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 18:48:02 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things

you

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Why do you think I don't know anything about medical research?

So you're medically trained then or know people who are?

Loads of the latter, but if that's the same for you why the current
myopia?

Returning back to the original argument - who has the real talent in a hospital,
the medical staff or the administrators/managers and which one of them
ultimately is more useful? Well, the same goes for IT.

Ironically the CPCs were what got me properly into programming so you only
have yourself to blame for this argument ;)

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry
My ambition is to help at least as many people who are suffering from
cyber-abuse and unauthorised snooping, as those millions who were helped

Easy - tell them to get off twitter & facebook and don't use Windows. Job

done.
And for you, get off the Overground. Job done.

Job was done there months ago.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field
Returning back to the original argument - who has the real talent in a hospital,
the medical staff or the administrators/managers and which one of them
ultimately is more useful? Well, the same goes for IT.

If the managers can't raise the money, the beds are empty. And like I
said before, the greatest talent is those researching new treatments (be
they medicinal or surgical).

[s***@potato.field]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:44:32 +0000

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field
Returning back to the original argument - who has the real talent in a

hospital,

Post by s***@potato.field
the medical staff or the administrators/managers and which one of them
ultimately is more useful? Well, the same goes for IT.

If the managers can't raise the money, the beds are empty. And like I

If there's no doctors the money is just a load of paper.

Post by s***@potato.field
said before, the greatest talent is those researching new treatments (be
they medicinal or surgical).

It depends. I'd sooner be a researcher in a lab than a heart surgeon who's
got a got knows how many hours op ahead and someones life directly in his hands.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field
Returning back to the original argument - who has the real talent in a

hospital,

Post by s***@potato.field
the medical staff or the administrators/managers and which one of them
ultimately is more useful? Well, the same goes for IT.

If the managers can't raise the money, the beds are empty. And like I

If there's no doctors the money is just a load of paper.

We weren't talking about having "no doctors", but whose talents are
higher.

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by s***@potato.field
said before, the greatest talent is those researching new treatments (be
they medicinal or surgical).

It depends. I'd sooner be a researcher in a lab than a heart surgeon who's
got a got knows how many hours op ahead and someones life directly in his hands.

Much of the research is done by heart surgeons (or whoever) pioneering
new treatments in the operating theatre.

[s***@potato.field]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 08:57:16 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
If there's no doctors the money is just a load of paper.

We weren't talking about having "no doctors", but whose talents are
higher.

I'm not sure why you think that being in research automatically makes you
more talented than someone at the coal face. Going into a research is a
choice and there are many reasons for people not going into it other than
not being good enough.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field
It depends. I'd sooner be a researcher in a lab than a heart surgeon who's
got a got knows how many hours op ahead and someones life directly in his

hands.
Much of the research is done by heart surgeons (or whoever) pioneering
new treatments in the operating theatre.

Well obviously someone has to actually do a new treatment eventually. That
doesn't mean they're any better than the next guy.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry
Much of the research is done by heart surgeons (or whoever) pioneering
new treatments in the operating theatre.

Well obviously someone has to actually do a new treatment eventually. That
doesn't mean they're any better than the next guy.

The ones who pioneer (aka research) the new treatments are generally
more skilled than those merely following in their footsteps.

[s***@potato.field]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:11:34 +0000

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry
Much of the research is done by heart surgeons (or whoever) pioneering
new treatments in the operating theatre.

Well obviously someone has to actually do a new treatment eventually. That
doesn't mean they're any better than the next guy.

The ones who pioneer (aka research) the new treatments are generally
more skilled than those merely following in their footsteps.

Not necessarily - they're simply the ones who had the idea. Alan Turing was
certainly a genius but I wouldn't say that he was smarter than every other
person working in computer science from now and ever after. In fact you could
argue Tommy Flowers was the one who really gave computing the kick it needed.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry

Post by s***@potato.field

Post by Roland Perry
Much of the research is done by heart surgeons (or whoever) pioneering
new treatments in the operating theatre.

Well obviously someone has to actually do a new treatment eventually. That
doesn't mean they're any better than the next guy.

The ones who pioneer (aka research) the new treatments are generally
more skilled than those merely following in their footsteps.

Not necessarily - they're simply the ones who had the idea.

Then the person with the high skills is the one who did the pioneering
operations and turned the idea into something which could be rolled out
as a standard technique.

[Eric]

Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:29:09 +0000

Post by The Real Doctor

Post by s***@potato.field
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.
Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience.
Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Yes, but if you follow them carefully you will get a system that looks
like it was designed _and_ written by aformentioned eejit.

Eric

[The Real Doctor]

Post by Robin
The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future"

I strongly suspect that it has been taken from German: Neubau, Tiefbau,
Umbau (a personal favourite - how many syllables does English need to
get close to that?) and so on.

Ian

[s***@potato.field]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:38:02 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by s***@potato.field
Whats wrong with "new builds are" other than you don't like it?

Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.
"New buildings are" would be OK.

I see your point, but English changes as the years go by. And compared to some
of the ugly words and constructs added to the language recently this IMO is
fairly innocuous.

--
Spud

[e27002 aurora]

Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:38:02 +0000

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by s***@potato.field
Whats wrong with "new builds are" other than you don't like it?

Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.
"New buildings are" would be OK.

I see your point, but English changes as the years go by.
** compared to some
of the ugly words and constructs added to the language recently this IMO is
fairly innocuous **<

One cannot argue with that!

[e27002 aurora]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 15:03:36 +0000, e27002 aurora <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 03:36:30 +0000, "Clive D. W. Feather"

(I realise, definitely with an S rather than a Z, that there is a US
cross-post on this thread, though)

The OED actually prefers the Z spellings, as they derive from a Greek
form with a zeta in it ("izon", IIRC). The S spellings are something
else to blame on the French.

:-)

[e27002 aurora]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:28:49 +0000, Neil Williams

It turns out that while the same name is used (which effectively only
describes the general style of the plug body) there are variations
across Europe of how such plugs and outlets are required to be
configured WRT earthing and polarisation. In some cases (Netherlands)
a polarised and earthed plug (CEE 7/7 as sometimes delivered with
computers supplied with two "kettle" leads) will still fit a socket
(CEE 7/1) which has neither polarisation nor earthing.
That would suggest that for use in the UK a socket would have to
comply with CEE 7/5 if I'm reading the above article correctly.

The most significant issue in the UK with regard to European style
sockets is the lack of plug fuses, which are required because socket
circuits in the UK are normally fused to 30A/32A at the distribution
board, while the flexes of appliances (nor the appliances themselves)
are not required to have this rating. So a Schuko socket (or any other
non-fused type) could only be fitted on a fused spur or a socket
circuit with a smaller fuse.
There is a strong argument for the UK to move to a larger number of
radial socket circuits fused at 15A/16A, which would AIUI solve this
issue.
As regards sockets, I've seen sockets in India that accept UK, European
2-pin and US plugs on the same faceplate, though the shutter mechanism
would be interesting.
Neil

At a tangent, but a related one. Back in the 1970s, when we bought
our first house in Basingstoke, GB. I was able to purchase a UK
standard double faceplate that had a thirteen amp outlet on one side,
and a fuse holder and two three amp round pin outlets on the other.

This was very useful. For example in ones living room one could use
it for a standard lamp, a table lamp, and still have somewhere in
which to plug one's vacuum cleaner.

Nowadays, I cannot find theses faceplates.

[e27002 aurora]

Post by e27002 aurora
At a tangent, but a related one. Back in the 1970s, when we bought
our first house in Basingstoke, GB. I was able to purchase a UK
standard double faceplate that had a thirteen amp outlet on one side,
and a fuse holder and two three amp round pin outlets on the other.

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Often used in more recent times on lighting circuits, so you can plug
floor-standing lights in and have them controlled from the light
switches.

Roland, Nigel has it right. They are in fact rated at 2 amps. My
mistake. It has been a while since I saw one. Would love to locate a
couple of those faceplates though.

[Roland Perry]

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by e27002 aurora
At a tangent, but a related one. Back in the 1970s, when we bought
our first house in Basingstoke, GB. I was able to purchase a UK
standard double faceplate that had a thirteen amp outlet on one side,
and a fuse holder and two three amp round pin outlets on the other.

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Often used in more recent times on lighting circuits, so you can plug
floor-standing lights in and have them controlled from the light
switches.

Roland, Nigel has it right. They are in fact rated at 2 amps. My
mistake. It has been a while since I saw one. Would love to locate a
couple of those faceplates though.

Indeed. I kind of tuned out the difference between two and three amps.

Then there were 5amp versions for power distribution where 15amps wasn't
needed.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora

Post by e27002 aurora
At a tangent, but a related one. Back in the 1970s, when we bought
our first house in Basingstoke, GB. I was able to purchase a UK
standard double faceplate that had a thirteen amp outlet on one side,
and a fuse holder and two three amp round pin outlets on the other.

Possibly too non-standard for modern use when much the same can be
achieved with currently available boxes designed to take two single
faceplates, e.g.:-
Loading Image...

(to be distinguished from boxes for double faceplates :-
Loading Image... )

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Often used in more recent times on lighting circuits, so you can plug
floor-standing lights in and have them controlled from the light
switches.

Use for domestic lighting seems to have been something of a revival
possibly enabled by continued use in e.g. theatres and non-domestic
lighting, maybe also aided by continued availability from India.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by e27002 aurora
Roland, Nigel has it right. They are in fact rated at 2 amps. My
mistake. It has been a while since I saw one. Would love to locate a
couple of those faceplates though.

Indeed. I kind of tuned out the difference between two and three amps.
Then there were 5amp versions for power distribution where 15amps wasn't
needed.

[d***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Roland Perry

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Then there were 5amp versions for power distribution where 15amps wasn't
needed.

And a 30 amp one for when more was needed,,it would be rare to find
one in most domestic houses but were found in commercial premisis.
The weather protected version is still available from the one
electrical factor but most applications where it would be used are
more likely use the 32 amp plug from the BS4343 range.

G.Harman

[Charles Ellson]

Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Roland Perry

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Then there were 5amp versions for power distribution where 15amps wasn't
needed.

And a 30 amp one for when more was needed,,it would be rare to find
one in most domestic houses but were found in commercial premisis.
The weather protected version is still available from the one
electrical factor but most applications where it would be used are
more likely use the 32 amp plug from the BS4343 range.

The price might be a factor as well :-
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LDPD30slash3PAM.html

[Clive D. W. Feather]

Post by e27002 aurora

*Three amp* round pin sockets? I don't recall those.

Often used in more recent times on lighting circuits, so you can plug
floor-standing lights in and have them controlled from the light
switches.

Roland, Nigel has it right. They are in fact rated at 2 amps.

My boarding school was an old building with lots of different socket
types. I'm sure I saw those round pins in 2A, 3A, 5A, and 15A sizes as
well as the modern 13A ones.

[e27002 aurora]

*guffaw*
They always crawl out the woodwork don't they - the ones who have zero to add
to any debate but pick up on the tiniest typo and think they've come up with
some stunningly original yet subtle putdown.
I guess we'll hear from you again in another year or 2 when someone mentions
grammar again when you'll cut and paste the same response?

In fact, I have a web page I wrote about 15 years ago about correct use of the
apostrophe.

Is it extant? Can we have a URL please?

It isn't meant as an unnecessary put-down (unlike your post full
of personal insults). If I read a sentence and it has incorrect apostrophe usage,
it immediately grates and distracts my attention from whatever point was being
made. It's deeply ironic that someone making an off-topic post about grammar,
and making sweeping statements about whole sections of society who live in
certain types of housing development, should not even check his post for errors
before sending it, and then criticise anyone who picks up on it for being
off-topic and contributing nothing. A pot calling two different kettles black.

[e27002 aurora]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:31:02 +0000, Recliner

Or its supply of hot water. I've only stayed at two hotels (out of
several hundreds) which ran out of hot water.
The first was in Maidenhead in around 1980 and had suffered a one-off
major outage of some kind. The other was Sharm-el-Sheikh in 2009 where
no-one appeared to be that surprised that the system had broken down
yet again.

I stayed in one in Weymouth (the name of which I've forgotten) four
years ago where the hot and cold water stopped. Fortunately the
bath/sink appeared to be on a different supply to the cistern. It was
back after a couple of days.

I stayed in a very smart hotel recently where both the hot and cold
water failed for a while. However, as it was in Livingstone, Zambia, I
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/22684743741/in/album-72157660656194221/
We were warned that though they look cute, they are also very
bad-tempered, and it was inadvisable to get too close if we didn't
want to get kicked. There were also giraffes in the hotel grounds,
though I failed to get a picture of them.

At least Canada geese are laid back. But the self-fertilising of
lawns can be problematic.

One adds: Canada Geese are not so laid back when they have their
young. If you ever see two adult geese and several yellow fluffy
chicks, give them plenty of space.
If one of the adults starts to move quickly towards you, with its neck
parallel to the ground, take several steps back.