Discussion:
London Bridge new station concourse open
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e27002 aurora
2016-08-29 13:10:03 UTC
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 06:01:37 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Hearn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/29/football-pitch-sized-concourse-to-partially-open-at-london-bridge-station
It doesn't say how many milliWales it is
Great news. Thank you posting Patrick. Xposted to uk.t.l and m.t.u-t
e27002 aurora
2016-08-30 17:43:36 UTC
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Post by e27002 aurora
On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 06:01:37 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Hearn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/29/football-pitch-sized-concourse-to-partially-open-at-london-bridge-station
It doesn't say how many milliWales it is
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157673127347595
Thanks for sharing.
Quite so, Nigel takes a nice photograph.
I had a look on a staff preview a week or so ago and I agree that it has a serious "wow" factor.
Overall the new station looks excellent. The font on the fixed signs
is not great. Gill Sans would have been markedly better.
Richard J.
2016-08-30 23:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by e27002 aurora
Overall the new station looks excellent. The font on the fixed signs
is not great. Gill Sans would have been markedly better.
The font is presumably NR Brunel, Network Rail's current standard for
signage. The only full character set that I've found is buried in the NR
document "Managed Stations Wayfinding" on page 10 (numbered as page 20
in my downloaded PDF file). It can be downloaded from
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/137521/response/332469/attach/2/L2%20Signage%20Managed%20Station%20Guidelines.pdf

It's difficult to comment on the signage based on Recliner's photos, but
I would doubt if Gill Sans would be "markedly better". What don't you
like about the NR Brunel font?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

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Tim Watts
2016-08-31 06:20:08 UTC
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I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".

I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).

Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed off
rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due to
being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Recliner
2016-08-31 07:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Watts
I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".
I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).
Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed off
rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due to
being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Probably both. The escalator/lift wells are quite long, to let light down
into the concourse below. That's why it looks so bright and airy. But it
means that boarding pax can circulate below, choosing the right point to
ascend up to their platform, rather than having to push along the platform
itself.
tim...
2016-08-31 09:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Watts
I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".
I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).
Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed off
rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due to
being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Cannon St's not closed (unless it was just a one-off)

The difficultly is that Cannon Street trains are not stopping at London
Bridge (for the next 2 years)

tim
Recliner
2016-08-31 10:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Tim Watts
I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".
I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).
Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed off
rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due to
being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Cannon St's not closed (unless it was just a one-off)
The difficultly is that Cannon Street trains are not stopping at London
Bridge (for the next 2 years)
It was closed for a few days for the track realignment through LBG.
Optimist
2016-08-31 10:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Tim Watts
I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".
I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).
Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed off
rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due to
being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Cannon St's not closed (unless it was just a one-off)
The difficultly is that Cannon Street trains are not stopping at London
Bridge (for the next 2 years)
It was closed for a few days for the track realignment through LBG.
Le Bourget? :)
Tim Watts
2016-08-31 11:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Tim Watts
I see complaints in the Standard of "narrow platforms".
I know for a fact the through lines have exactly the same spacing as
before (been going through it for the last year on the train).
Are they complaining about the fact that there are those big flassed
off rectangles where the escalators are? Or is it false perception due
to being extra crowded as Cannon St is closed?
Cannon St's not closed (unless it was just a one-off)
The difficultly is that Cannon Street trains are not stopping at London
Bridge (for the next 2 years)
It *might* have been a one off the other day, or maybe just affecting
the Hastings line. I recall the guard saying "closed" when apologising
for out train being rammed (properly, not in a Jeremy Corbyn way).

I know the whole London Bridge thing has some funny short term
restrictions in August covering the switchover (CHX trains stopping at
Lon Br, and Cannot St not for the next year or so).

Looking very smart though - and I have used the terminus platforms once
last week when the Hastings trains started there (Sevenoaks line closed
for engineering, Hastings taking the scenic route via Redhill).

It's looking a LOT better than that horrid abomination that was there
throughout my childhood until recently.
Graeme Wall
2016-08-31 12:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Watts
I know the whole London Bridge thing has some funny short term
restrictions in August covering the switchover (CHX trains stopping at
Lon Br, and Cannot St not for the next year or so).
Very appropriate typo :-)
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2016-08-31 07:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard J.
Post by e27002 aurora
Overall the new station looks excellent. The font on the fixed signs
is not great. Gill Sans would have been markedly better.
The font is presumably NR Brunel, Network Rail's current standard for
signage. The only full character set that I've found is buried in the NR
document "Managed Stations Wayfinding" on page 10 (numbered as page 20
in my downloaded PDF file). It can be downloaded from
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/137521/response/332469/attach/2/L2%20Signage%20Managed%20Station%20Guidelines.pdf
It's difficult to comment on the signage based on Recliner's photos, but
I would doubt if Gill Sans would be "markedly better". What don't you
like about the NR Brunel font?
The signs all seemed to be using the normal NR font. Perhaps Adrian was
referring to the big temporary wall that covers the work going on under
platforms 1-6, which, probably deliberately, uses a different font to
promote the Thameslink project?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/28694022863/in/photostream/lightbox/
e27002 aurora
2016-09-01 07:53:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:03:27 +0100, "Richard J."
Post by Richard J.
Post by e27002 aurora
Overall the new station looks excellent. The font on the fixed signs
is not great. Gill Sans would have been markedly better.
The font is presumably NR Brunel, Network Rail's current standard for
signage. The only full character set that I've found is buried in the NR
document "Managed Stations Wayfinding" on page 10 (numbered as page 20
in my downloaded PDF file). It can be downloaded from
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/137521/response/332469/attach/2/L2%20Signage%20Managed%20Station%20Guidelines.pdf
Thank you. It took a while to download that.
Post by Richard J.
It's difficult to comment on the signage based on Recliner's photos, but
I would doubt if Gill Sans would be "markedly better". What don't you
like about the NR Brunel font?
OK, so look at the picture from Nigel: http://tinyurl.com/zkpzow2 The
"9" has a very exaggerated form. Railways in the UK have always had a
reputation for adopting good industrial design. IMHO the
understatement inherent in Gill Sans is very pleasing to the eye when
used for sign posting and the like.

OTOH it is terrible for documents. :-)
Richard J.
2016-09-01 11:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by e27002 aurora
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:03:27 +0100, "Richard J."
Post by Richard J.
Post by e27002 aurora
Overall the new station looks excellent. The font on the fixed signs
is not great. Gill Sans would have been markedly better.
The font is presumably NR Brunel, Network Rail's current standard for
signage. The only full character set that I've found is buried in the NR
document "Managed Stations Wayfinding" on page 10 (numbered as page 20
in my downloaded PDF file). It can be downloaded from
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/137521/response/332469/attach/2/L2%20Signage%20Managed%20Station%20Guidelines.pdf
Thank you. It took a while to download that.
Post by Richard J.
It's difficult to comment on the signage based on Recliner's photos, but
I would doubt if Gill Sans would be "markedly better". What don't you
like about the NR Brunel font?
OK, so look at the picture from Nigel: http://tinyurl.com/zkpzow2 The
"9" has a very exaggerated form. Railways in the UK have always had a
reputation for adopting good industrial design. IMHO the
understatement inherent in Gill Sans is very pleasing to the eye when
used for sign posting and the like.
The elegant understatement doesn't necessarily aid fast recognition from
a distance which you need in a font used for signage. The most
understated character in Gill Sans is the number "1", which is
indistinguishable from upper case "i" and lower case "L". Having said
that, I don't find the 9 and 6 in NR Brunel very attractive. But in any
font, there are always one or two characters that grate against one's
own feelings.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

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e27002 aurora
2016-08-30 17:46:25 UTC
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Post by e27002 aurora
On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 06:01:37 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Hearn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/29/football-pitch-sized-concourse-to-partially-open-at-london-bridge-station
It doesn't say how many milliWales it is
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157673127347595
Thanks for sharing. I had a look on a staff preview a week or so ago and I agree that it has a serious "wow" factor.
And a reminder of earlier times!
Thank you, Good to see the evolution of the station.
e27002 aurora
2016-08-30 17:48:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 23:41:16 +0100, Neil Williams
Thanks for sharing. I had a look on a staff preview a week or so ago
and I agree that it has a serious "wow" factor.
All that wood reminds me of Bern Hbf. The PIS positioning looks very
well thought through, too.
Neil
The finish looks beautiful, such an improvement on British Rail's
1970s attempt at modernizing the station.
e27002 aurora
2016-08-30 17:50:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:15:34 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/29/football-pitch-sized-concourse-to-partially-open-at-london-bridge-station
It doesn't say how many milliWales it is
Can anyone explain how this fits together?
I recently used LB for the first time, coming off an ex-Cannon St train at
platform 1 and changing to a Southern train on platform 13. The site seemed
to have disparate clumps of platforms: 1-4, 10-15, with no signs of the
platforms in the middle.
The station was in two parts high level (originally 1-6) and low level (7-15).
This is being changed to 1-9 high and 10-15 low with a big concourse underneath instead of zillions of arches. See wi-ki for a good description.
Which platforms now serve which routes,
10-15 serve Southern
7-9 serve routes from Charing X
services from Cannon Street will [temporarily] pass through 5 & 6.
and how will this change as other
parts are opened up?
1-3 will be demolished and eventually rebuilt
10-15 serve Southern
7-9 will serve routes from Charing X
6 shared
4&5 will serve Thameslink routes from Blakcfriars
3 shared
1&2 will serve routes from Cannon Street
Exciting times on the railways. Thameslink 2000 is taking shape at
last.
tim...
2016-08-30 18:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by e27002 aurora
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:15:34 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/29/football-pitch-sized-concourse-to-partially-open-at-london-bridge-station
It doesn't say how many milliWales it is
Can anyone explain how this fits together?
I recently used LB for the first time, coming off an ex-Cannon St train at
platform 1 and changing to a Southern train on platform 13. The site seemed
to have disparate clumps of platforms: 1-4, 10-15, with no signs of the
platforms in the middle.
The station was in two parts high level (originally 1-6) and low level (7-15).
This is being changed to 1-9 high and 10-15 low with a big concourse
underneath instead of zillions of arches. See wi-ki for a good
description.
Which platforms now serve which routes,
10-15 serve Southern
7-9 serve routes from Charing X
services from Cannon Street will [temporarily] pass through 5 & 6.
and how will this change as other
parts are opened up?
1-3 will be demolished and eventually rebuilt
10-15 serve Southern
7-9 will serve routes from Charing X
6 shared
4&5 will serve Thameslink routes from Blakcfriars
3 shared
1&2 will serve routes from Cannon Street
Exciting times on the railways. Thameslink 2000 is taking shape at
last.
18 years late by the time it is completed
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